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Inside the Ring of Fire

Monday, May 10, 2010 - Show Transcript - April 11

GUESTS –

Hon Michael Gravelle, Minister of Northern Development, Mines and Forestry
Chief Eli Moonias, Marten Falls First Nation
Chief Cornelius Wabasse, Webequie First Nation
Frank Smeenk, KWG Resources
Don Hoy, Freewest Resources
Caroline Schultz, Ontario Nature

(The program is shot against a background of aerial views of the Ring of Fire area in northern Ontario; Marten Falls First Nation; Webequie First Nation; the offices of Freewest Resources and KWG Resources)

SEAN MALLEN: We’re on the road again this week, more than 400 km north of Thunder Bay, on the Marten Falls First Nation, home to some of Ontario’s least noted, least affluent, citizens. That is, least noted until someone started to find this material in a place nearby called the Ring of Fire. There are no flames in the Ring of Fire. When we flew over it in March it was an endless expanse of frozen lakes and muskeg. It got the name partially because of some ancient volcanic activity in the area, but mainly because the original prospector was a Johnny Cash fan and thought the title of an old hit song sounded just about right.

It is centred about 500 kilometres northeast of Thunder Bay, on the edges of the Hudson Bay lowlands. Here is what’s causing all the excitement. Chromite has been found in large amounts and in high grades. It is an essential ingredient in stainless steel.

Frank Smeenk, KWG Resources: It’s a world class discovery of a metal that is one of the building blocks of modern society.

While mining companies race to exploit it, the impoverished First Nations in the region point out that it is on their traditional lands.

Roy Spence, Webequie First Nation: No one has respected or responded in a proper manner about a First Nation’s policy … treaty rights.

And environmentalists warn of a wild west mentality, that could damage the far north.

Caroline Schultz: It has been likened to a 21st century gold rush. I think we do need to step back a little bit.

In the middle, the government of Ontario, trying to mediate.

On this week’s Focus – Inside the Ring of Fire.

From the Global News Room in Toronto, Focus Ontario with Sean Mallen.

SEAN MALLEN: Our visit to the next big thing in Ontario is with the Minister of Northern Development, Mines and Forestry, Michael Gravelle. He was on a mission of mediation. Since January members of the Marten Falls and Webequie First Nations have been blockading two airstrips on remote frozen lakes. Frustrated, because they believed they weren’t seeing jobs and benefits from the Ring of Fire, they had brought prospecting work to a standstill.

Our first stop was Marten Falls, a community of about 250 people, where jobs are scarce, and until now prospects few. The band council allowed us to witness their meeting with the Minister:

Chief Eli Moonias, Marten Falls First Nation: What we’d like to know, want to do, is to ensure that our people benefit too with the new ways … One of the concerns was the two lakes that are being used for the last eight years as a landing strip and heliport. And there’s been a lot of pollution there.

SEAN MALLEN: But the Chief said that since the blockade, mining companies had started to improve communications.

Chief Eli Moonias: We did get responses and most of them were positive you know, we want to work and move forward.

Michael Gravelle: We feel that we have what we hope is a helpful role that we could play in continuing to facilitate these discussions.

SEAN MALLEN: A little later in a community lunch young people gave the Minister a sense of why they had been protesting, and it was a friendly demonstration. The Chief had already told Gravelle privately that the First Nations would be lifting the blockades.

Chief Eli Moonias: And what we have said it’s okay, let’s do that and we want to do that for the next six months and work on those issues. And what we want to do as our sign said, the kids got up and prepared them here; the kids are right on with the signs of what we want with the development of our lands.

SEAN MALLEN: My first guest is Chief Eli Moonias of the Marten Falls First Nation. Thanks for joining me on Focus Ontario, Chief. What do you want for your people out of the Ring of Fire development?

Chief Eli Moonias: We want our people working when development occurs. We need to renovate our means of livelihood, and one way of doing that is to get into a business area that’s occurring in our territory.

SEAN MALLEN: Do you have hope that your people will get jobs, will be able to get at least a fair share of this billion dollar project that might be happening?

Chief Eli Moonias: I don’t have hope, I think it should happen what we want, and because the Treaty is not a hope instrument. It’s an instrument of guarantee, guarantee of rights.

SEAN MALLEN: Give me an idea of the unemployment rate here.

Chief Eli Moonias: It’s 90 per cent, about that.

SEAN MALLEN: So your people could really use this.

Chief Eli Moonias: Oh yes.

SEAN MALLEN: What kind of environmental damage are you talking about, that the mining companies were involved with.

Chief Eli Moonias: They had camps close to the lakes and there was sewage being deposited into the lake, and also there were spirits in the lakes themselves, fuel products.

SEAN MALLEN: Not a good sign for your people.

Chief Eli Moonias: Oh, it’s not a good sign for what’s living in that lake, the fish and whatever.

SEAN MALLEN: And how do you think the government has been helping you out in this affair?

Chief Eli Moonias: I think the Minister’s coming here and sitting down with our Treaty people, I think that’s a good sign.

SEAN MALLEN: I gather there’s also an issue about which First Nations are going to get the benefits first.

Chief Eli Moonias: There’s a concern there that ever since the discovery of this area, the deposits, a lot of people have become interested in the area, including the First Nations surrounding the area, and claiming the area as their own as well. But as we were saying, we have … connection to the area, our clans lived there and we can prove it.

SEAN MALLEN: But just to be clear, your people’s position is that you’re not against the mining, but it has to be on your terms and you have to see the benefits.

Chief Eli Moonias: That’s about it. As I said I went to Cowper(sp?) Lake the other weekend, and I didn’t go there on foot, I went there with the skidoo, and the skidoo comes from mining, so I cannot very well say I’m against it, so I mean all we want, just like we said, to be involved and have the Treaty terms involved in terms of implementation and full benefits.

SEAN MALLEN: Chief Eli Moonias, thanks for coming on Focus Ontario.

Chief Eli Moonias: All right.

SEAN MALLEN: Next on our Ring of Fire special – face to face with First Nation frustration.

Roy Spence: We cannot wait another three months, six months.

* * *

SEAN MALLEN: The next stop for the Northern Development Minister was in Webequie, just to the western edge of the Ring of Fire. It has about double the population of Marten Falls and it seemed that most of the community came out for a public meeting.

Chief Cornelius Wabasse, Webequie First Nation: We talked about updating and strengthening the memorandum of cooperation that we have with the government.

SEAN MALLEN: Gravelle listened to calls from the band council to improve the airstrip, and the supply of electricity. Then pointed questions from an Elder, Ananis Spence, who spoke through a translator.

Ananis Spence, Elder (speaking through translator): What he wants is maybe something that he can use right now, like some benefit to his person or the community.

Michael Gravelle: Well, we understand how important it is that whatever happens with the Ring of Fire, with the many economic development opportunities that are there, there has to be real benefits to the community. We recognize that in the past the process was not brought forward in a manner that always respected your communities, and respect for your land, and we are in a different time now.

SEAN MALLEN: Then the elder’s grandson, Travis Spence, the youngest member of the band council:

Travis Spence, Band Councillor: The youth needs more engagement and support for the employment opportunities now, and into the future.

Michael Gravelle: What I keep trying to help people all across the north understand is that within the next generation 25 percent of the work force in northern Ontario will be aboriginal. We need to find the opportunities, we need to have the skills development to recognize the great opportunity that gives all of us in northern Ontario -

SEAN MALLEN: It seemed the meeting was about to draw to a close on a positive note, with the Chief confirming the end of the blockade.

Chief Cornelius Wabasse: I would like to see more meetings like this in the future and more time. We would like to see that, and from here on over the next six months we will be monitoring how we make progress in our working relationship. So hope we will make progress.

SEAN MALLEN: But then another community member, Roy Spence, took the microphone to deliver a pointed message.

Roy Spence: Nothing is happening right now. We just have been having meetings.

SEAN MALLEN: Treaty rights weren’t being respected he said, by either governments or mining companies.

Roy Spence: We want to bring down our sacred flag tomorrow. If nothing happens in … three months, we’re going to go back there. More action, more aggressive action, as the elder said we want the money now, not later. Thank you very much, Minister Gravelle.

Michael Gravelle: It’s important for all of you to know that I am here because I want to show respect to you, and I know how important our relationship is, and I will do everything I can to see that fairness is brought to you. You must know how important it is for me to say this, this is about building respect and trust and a relationship, and it’s something that means a great deal to me and to all our ministry people. Megwitch!

SEAN MALLEN: Cornelius Wabasse of the Webequie First Nation. Chief, you’ve now dropped your blockade. I wonder why?

Chief Cornelius Wabasse: Yes, the issues are being addressed, but not to the full extent that we had in mind. We need to see implementation of the demands that were put on the table and for the next six months we’re going to be monitoring them and hope within the next two months we’ll be able to know where everything is going.

SEAN MALLEN: Listening to the meeting there I got a sense from that one gentleman at the end, some of your people feel you should be seeing a lot more benefits now. Is that a common feeling amongst your people?

Chief Cornelius Wabasse: It is a common feeling; it is a common feeling for other First Nations as well, and that’s something that is still an issue, and we still have to deal with that.

SEAN MALLEN: And how has your government been serving you in this whole process?

Chief Cornelius Wabasse: The government at times has overlooked us and that’s one of the reasons why we had to do the blockade. So hopefully you know this time things will start to improve.

SEAN MALLEN: I gather there’s a bit of a difference of opinion among the First Nations in the area about who’s going to be first in line. The Chief of Marten Falls told me he should be first. I wonder what your opinion is to that.

Chief Cornelius Wabasse: We’re still working on that. We know that benefits will be different and we just have to come up with agreements or understandings of how much each should get, but overall I think each First Nations should get benefits.

SEAN MALLEN: He says Marten Falls should be first in line. What’s your opinion about that?

Chief Cornelius Wabasse: In some areas you know for us too, we are first in line. You know if anything falls in our own traditional territory then we are first in line with that.

SEAN MALLEN: Chief Cornelius Wabasse, thanks for coming on Focus Ontario. And we’ll be right back. In our next segment, an interview with the Minister of Northern Development.

Michael Gravelle: Well, it’s been a remarkable experience.

* * *

SEAN MALLEN: The McGuinty government points to the Ring of Fire as key to the recovery, for not only the north, but the whole province, which is why the Minister toured First Nations in the region, trying to put out a brush fire that threatens to hold up the whole process. We spoke to him as he brought his tour to a close.

Michael Gravelle: Well, it’s been a remarkable experience. It’s been just a tremendous opportunity for me certainly as Minister, and for my ministry officials to certainly be in the communities, meet with the Chief, meet with the communities themselves as we just have, and I think we have had an extremely good day. The fact that they did announce that indeed the blockade is coming down, that there is a spirit of cooperation, a belief that there’s been some good work done with the mining companies and with our government, and a commitment on our part to continue that work with the communities. Those were to reassure the community that indeed we were committed to see that the benefits accrue to the communities, whatever developments move forward, and I think today has been a real success.

SEAN MALLEN: Now you got a sense though right at the very end, some people are saying why wait. People are making money there right now. Why can’t we make money now?

Michael Gravelle: There are some very strong feelings, they were very honest, it was very heart-felt. I made it clear that I understood how they feel. I came here, I wanted to show respect; I want to develop trust with the communities, we want to strengthen our relationships. I can only promise that’s a commitment of our government, commitment of our ministry, and certainly my personal commitment as well.

SEAN MALLEN: What did you think of the conversation with Chief Moonias in Marten Falls? I asked him whether he has hope that they are going to be able to see benefits, and he said it’s not a question of hope, it should be guaranteed because of the treaties. What’s your answer to that?

Michael Gravelle: We are working very closely with the communities. We recognize just how important this is in terms of providing hope for the future for all the residents, but certainly for the young generation. I made the point inside that within the next generation 25 percent of the work force in northern Ontario will be aboriginal. We need to understand how important that is, and we need to make sure that the benefits do accrue. So certainly it’s our commitment to work towards those goals and it’s a commitment that I take very seriously.

SEAN MALLEN: Still ahead on our final segment - the prospectors.

Don Hoy, Freewest Resources: It’s spectacular, it really is.

SEAN MALLEN: And the environmentalists.

Caroline Schultz, Ontario Nature: Not so much about being anti-mining per se, but ensuring that it’s done in the right way.

* * *

Don Hoy, Freewest Resources: There is a prospectus for chromite mineralization, as well as nickel, copper mineralization.

SEAN MALLEN: In the modest Thunder Bay offices of Freewest Resources you find one very excited geologist – Don Hoy.

Don Hoy: We’re looking at high grade chromite mineralization here. Chromite of course is the dark greyish mineral we polished up to bring out some of the textures. This is 47 percent Cr2O3, which is extremely, extremely high grade mineralization.

SEAN MALLEN: How long have you been a geologist working in the field?

Don Hoy: I’ve been practising geology for the last twenty-five years.

SEAN MALLEN: Ever seen anything like this?

Don Hoy: Never. No, I mean chromite deposits in Canada tend to be very small. This is shaping up to be by far the largest in North America. It’s spectacular, it really is, to find a deposit this large and this high-grade in this size. It’s really once in a life-time.

Frank Smeenk: This is the Ring of Fire. (pointing to a map on the wall) These are coloured claims.

SEAN MALLEN: Frank Smeenk is President of KWG Resources, one of the players in the development. So how many claims are we looking at up here?

Frank Smeenk: Oh, a thousand claims. It’s a world class discovery of a metal that is one of the building blocks of modern society.

SEAN MALLEN: What makes it so valuable?

Frank Smeenk: Just the price. It’s been as high within the last couple of years, as high as $2.50 a pound.

SEAN MALLEN: So in a way is it almost like a kind of a gold rush mentality, only with a base metal?

Frank Smeenk: Well, it’s going to be a multi-billion dollar development and some of the big guys are looking at it.

SEAN MALLEN: Because there are obviously pretty substantial logistical issues. You’re pretty far away from any kind of city of any size.

Frank Smeenk: Yes, you couldn’t be more nowhere than up there. It’s very expensive; it needs a railway to get the – this is heavy stuff – and the only way to get it out over many decades is to use a railroad.

SEAN MALLEN: So you’re talking about this line here is a potential rail line, 300 kilometres.

Frank Smeenk: 322 kilometres.

SEAN MALLEN: A big operation.

Frank Smeenk: A big operation.

SEAN MALLEN: And how do you build a 322 kilometre railway through the northern wilderness?

Frank Smeenk: Lots of people, lots of money.

SEAN MALLEN: I guess that speaks to the value of the claim to build a railway in the middle of the northern wilderness.

Frank Smeenk: Absolutely, yes, no doubt about it. But you know there would be a transportation route for anything that’s found up there – copper, zinc, nickel, chrome, iron. There’s iron there, there’s …ium, there’s titanium there. There’s gold there a little bit north on the Aquon(?) River.

SEAN MALLEN: So this empty part of Ontario could be getting pretty busy.

Frank Smeenk: Yes, it’s going to be very busy up there.

Caroline Schultz: We would expect any such proposal to be put under very, very tight scrutiny.

SEAN MALLEN: Environmentalists believe the province should at a minimum, slow everything down to ensure it’s carefully planned.

Caroline Schultz: This could have very wide-reaching ecological impact seriously affecting the boreal forest. So it could be likened to Ontario’s mini-tar sands, it’s certainly development that would occur potentially on an unprecedented scale.

SEAN MALLEN: How do you balance that with the need for jobs in the north, development in the north, development for Ontario?

Caroline Schultz: It’s not so much about being anti-mining per se, but ensuring that it’s done in the right way. We’re talking a lot about the green economy and green jobs in the south, but it looks like the north is destined to have brown jobs, and I think the government really needs to think about how it can develop a green economy for the north, including the far north.

SEAN MALLEN: While southerners debate the development, the First Nations who have lived near the Ring of Fire for generations, warn them all that nothing proceeds without their approval.

Frank Smeenk: I think the reason for the blockade or that kind of activity, is to make sure that we understand that they are there and they have an interest, and they want to get our attention, and they’ve got our attention. Well, they’re going to get what they want, which is to have an opportunity to participate in the first world economy in the 21st century.

SEAN MALLEN: So how far away are we from seeing some mines there, seeing chromite coming out?

Frank Smeenk: You know if this were the Second World War, it could happen in three or four years. I think that we’re hopeful that it can happen in five, six, seven years.

SEAN MALLEN: And for the economy of Ontario?

Frank Smeenk: Well, that’s starting right now. The money’s being spent now.

* * *

SEAN MALLEN: And that’s Focus for this week from Marten Falls. I’m Sean Mallen; thanks for watching. We’ll see you next weekend.

* * *

In the budget, the Ontario government announced:

- a ‘Ring of Fire coordinator’ to oversee development
- $45 million over three years for training of aboriginals and other northerners

* * *

Focus Ontario
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